ATHE_Transcript_Ep 400_Geneen Roth
JJ Virgin: [00:00:00] I have one of my sheroes on the show today. So this is so interesting. I guess it was, gosh, it was probably 30 years ago. It was at least 25 years ago. It's a long time ago. I was leading these workshops with a girlfriend who was a psychotherapist and we were leading body image workshops. And so I was obsessed with the work of Geneen.
And we actually go through the books that I went, that I read when I was obsessed, still obsessed with her. Her work is just amazing, but she first caught my attention with the book called when food is love. And then I went to a workshop and incorporated a lot of her teaching into what I do. So if you've been into any of my programs for my book, she'll see that I always have some very mindful work in there.
And. Awareness and journaling and figuring out your why. And a lot of that came through Geneen. So she reached out to me, gosh, [00:01:00] I don't know, year and a half ago, wanting to ask some questions about the current state of the book world. And I'm like, oh my gosh, my hero. Reaching out to me. And it's just been amazing connecting with her.
And what's so amazing is this woman has just been prolific. She has written 10 books, the number one bestselling book, women, food, and God, and it was on the New York Times list, for gosh, six months. She had multiple other New York times bestsellers and she's still leading workshops and retreats. She's been all over the place.
She's been on Oprah. Yes, today's show. Good morning, America, the view 2020 Dr. Oz. And again, she is just. The reason she's been everywhere and she's done so many best-selling books is because her stuff rocks! She is great. And I am super honored to have her on the show with me today. Now, before I jump in with her, I want to share one of my favorites with [00:02:00] you.
All right. Welcome to the show. Geneen Roth. I am super excited to have you here.
Geneen Roth: Thank you. And I'm pretty thrilled to be talking to you.
JJ Virgin: Well, it's nothing like interviewing your heroes or she rose, I guess, I guess it would be here. So I first found you, gosh, what, what was your very first. Book. I'm trying to think of what it was that I found you.
I was reading. What would it have been?
Geneen Roth: Wasn't that book feeding the hungry heart. It might've been When Food Is Love. That's
JJ Virgin: what it was when food is love. Food is love. That's where I got started with you. And then you had your book, women food, and God, it was a huge bestseller, six months, more than six months on the New York times list.
Wow. That is super great and super hard to do. I would think anyone listening, who's ever [00:03:00] pushed a book out there. It's it's like raising quintuplets. Now you have this next one. I love the title of this. I love your titles. Messy. Magnificent. Yes. What the heck is this
Geneen Roth: book? Yeah. Well, this book is about using what I learned to heal my relationship with food, how I ate, what I ate, basically, how I learned to eat healthy, the way you actually encourage people to eat.
Describe people, advise people. I love your work. What was keeping me from doing that in my own relationship with food is what I actually healed. And then using the things I learned with that with the entire rest of my life, with what I call the messiness in the rest of my life, everyday challenges, relationship, challenges, work challenges, getting sick, breaking bones family members [00:04:00] getting sick and dying.
I mean, just sort of the everyday stuff, the little stuff, and the big stuff.
JJ Virgin: Well, I love the, I just love that you called it messy. I had this one boyfriend before I met fabulous Tim, who everything had to be so neat and organized. And I had this little dog who shed and I'm like, you know, life's messy, life's messy.
It's fine.
Geneen Roth: It is messy. And I think part of the issue with a lot of us is that we keep thinking if only. We could get it neater. If only we get this handled and that handled, then we can relax and then we can start living. And the problem is that never really happens because life is an ongoing unfolding of situations.
And I don't want people to keep waiting till they have their life and so-called order to live fully to live magnificently. The messiness is part of it. And [00:05:00] can be used as a doorway to the fabulousness and the magnificence.
JJ Virgin: I mean, it just reminds me when people say, you know, I'm waiting to have kids till I get my, you know, my job dialed my best, that like all this stuff I'm looking going.
So you're never having kids, you know, it's the same type of thing. For someone listening and they, they have some things in their life they want to change. And I know we're going to talk some about weight loss too. That's where I initially found you. But just in general, what do you, you, you have this method for helping people change their lives.
What, what is.
Geneen Roth: Yes. Well, it's a couple of different steps. The first step is, and you know, this really well is, is listening to and getting into your body out of your mind and into your body or what I call standing in your own two shoes. And because that's where the guidance [00:06:00] comes, that's where the messages come.
That's how you know which foods are not good for you. And which foods are feeding your aliveness. Feeding your lifeforce. Making yourself thrive, but that can only happen when you get out of your mind out of your ideas of what's supposed to do it. And into the reality of these arms, these legs, these feet on the floor, these hands just realizing, okay, I've got a body and here it is.
And here I am, and here we are on planet earth. This is what it takes. This body. So sensing your feet on the floor, your butt in the chair you know, really being aware of your breathing. Just very simple things takes a minute or two a day. And another one is to stop what I call the crazy aunt in the attic, which is this ongoing noise in the head.
You should have, you could have how come you didn't if only you would have, how come you're trying yet. Another [00:07:00] thing what's the matter with you? Don't you realize that, you know, it's best not to take risks, that voice everybody's got it, it blares on and on and on all day long. And most of us are so.
Merged with it. So I identified with it that we can tell the difference between us and it or us and her, if you want to call it the crazy aunt in the attic. And so another step is just disengaging from that voice and realizing she isn't your friend. And I take people through a process, which I won't go into now about how to do that because that also is very.
JJ Virgin: Yeah, so you're really, really silencing,
Geneen Roth: but also realizing that It's not just about silencing the critic. It's about allowing the critic to be critical if it wants to the crazy aunt in the attic, [00:08:00] but if she's in the attic or it's in the attic, and if it's in the attic and going on all day long, But you're living two floors down, then it doesn't matter because I think people get discouraged.
At least the people that I work with get a little discouraged. They disengage, they tell the aunt to stop. They're aware of the top 10 criticisms that this voice says, or the inner-critic says. And then it comes back and then they feel like a failure because it comes back. Well, it's going to be there, but again, it's living in the attic and you're down in the living room.
It doesn't matter. You just learn to not pay attention.
JJ Virgin: That's fantastic because you're, you're never going to be really able to silence it most
Geneen Roth: likely, right? No, no. It's going to keep, you know, it's been in place since we were four years old and it's lived with us 24 7, our entire lives. But the, and it's [00:09:00] not a problem if you don't listen to and/or believe what.
It's just not a problem. It only becomes a problem when you believe it or her or him or whatever you want to call it. That's when it's.
JJ Virgin: Now I got attracted to you. And I was actually working with a girlfriend in LA who's a therapist, and I was a trainer at the time. And we were leading these body image workshops.
And, you know, everyone was coming to me as a trainer to help them lose weight. And I started to quickly realize that the issue wasn't with what they were eating or their exercise. Right. So let's like, let's go. There, because I remember going through this workshop with you and there were papers all over the wall
and people were writing all over the walls about their bodies and their weight. And it was I never experienced anything like it. And a very freeing. So [00:10:00] what you, you have this open secret. To permanent weight loss. So let's like not have it a secret.
It's like so what the heck is it? And really permanent weight loss really Geneen.
Geneen Roth: Well, yeah, so it's on two levels. One level is. Understanding how the way, believe it or not is serving you. I know people don't believe that they don't feel like that. They don't want to hear that. They don't like it. No
it's not serving me. It's getting in my way. I don't like schlepping 20 or 30. Extra pounds. I don't even like schlepping five or 10 pounds. It's only an obstacle. It's only a source of pain, but what I say to people, and this is on the emotional level, we'll talk about the physical level in a second on the emotional level.
I say, okay. But you're keeping it around for [00:11:00] good reasons. Let's just take a moment. And even if the good reasons are only 10% of the weight or why the weight is here, let's just look at that 10%. Let's see. Why you might be doing that. What the positive reasons are. And some of the reasons are because it keeps me protected because if I lost the weight, then I would have to take risks.
Then I would have to leave my job. Then I would have to go for a job that I really wanted. Then I would feel exposed. I don't want to feel exposed. And then people that I don't want to be attracted to me would be attracted to me. And I don't want that. I don't want that extra attention. And so it's sort of you know, subversive in a way asking this question because people aren't usually aware of.
And yet it's a survival mechanism. And so it's something [00:12:00] that's one of those core beliefs. If I lost weight, then. This would happen and that would happen. And this would happen or, you know,
JJ Virgin: Geneen, are they even aware of these are these in their subconscious?
Geneen Roth: That's why I'm saying it's subversive because most people aren't aware of it.
And most people disagree with me when I bring it up. There is no good reason. No, you're wrong. It's not happening. No, there's no, they're not aware of it, but it's for that very reason that it's important. Bring it up and, and name it. Just name it.
JJ Virgin: All right. Let's go into just eating in general and you know, how you make that shift from, you know, the, the bingeing, the desperate eating, the anxiety, you know you know, eating to fill up some [00:13:00] kind of, you know, need rather than food.
How do you, how do you change that? Shift that over to. Eating what fuels you and what's going to make you feel good and be healthy and loving that,
Geneen Roth: right? Yeah. Great question. Of course. And the first part of it is what you and I were just talking about to recognize. That there are emotional and psychological and exquisitely, good reasons why you are not making that shift.
So, you know, people are afraid to name that because they're afraid if they name that, then they'll never make the shift, but that's not true. They make the shift much quicker when they realize, and really. You know, have compassion for themselves right there. This is where kindness comes in. This is where you realize, okay, I've been doing this for good reasons and there's relief.
And so you name those. We just talked about that. The next part. [00:14:00] Is to really see what you're eating, how you're eating, how it's affecting you. And you talk about that a lot, JJ. Because you know, I read what you write all the time and what you say, and I love it. And so part of it is if you're not eating in a way that is.
Increasing your life force or, you know, giving you energy, helping you to thrive. Then it's important to look at. What you're eating. And if you're still caught in the past about that, because people can know what it is that feels great in their body, although that does take some attention, you know, it really does take some attention and still not do it and they're not doing it.
And that's my question. What's going on with you not doing it. I find it's very important and very helpful to say to people, to. What [00:15:00] are you eating for, and because if you start taking out things like sugar and processed carbs and the things that people are their comfort foods. Then without understanding that it's because you're going for something.
So it's not about deprivation. It's about going for aliveness. It's about going for feeling fabulous. And so you have, you focus on what you're doing and what it's for rather than what you're depriving yourself.
JJ Virgin: So I'm, I'm guessing you walk through people, people through this at your retreats and you're still doing these retreats, right?
Geneen Roth: Yes. Yes. So you came to a workshop that I did, which was a night and a day, and I'm still doing those occasionally. Maybe once or twice a year one on the east coast, one on the west coast, but mostly what I'm [00:16:00] doing are six day retreats. And so those are long retreats, twice a year. And then I work with those same people also.
Twice a year in between the retreats. And then I work with them in between the retreats. So there's a lot of sustained community support work with we'll work with other people about what's going on with their relationship with food
JJ Virgin: community is the single to me like community. A great support system is key.
Now in there you have something called this red string project.
Geneen Roth: Right. So you know, with this prevalence now of me too, and time's up and all this. On women speaking up and speaking out, which I think is great. I think it's fabulous. The one piece that's not being addressed in this is how women have internalized the [00:17:00] shame and we've internalized the way that we've been treated.
And so I feel really strongly about this, that this is work on the inner level, that in order to really feel like no is a complete sentence, and I don't want to is a complete sentence. We need to really just name and address the places where we feel it, believe it or not that our bodies don't belong to us.
And I know that sounds wild, but what the red string project is, I first did it in therapy with my own therapist who handed me a piece of red string, told me to put it around me in a circle, make a circle, sit in this circle and feel like. Red string on the circumference of the circle was my boundary and nobody could cross it.
My body was mine and believe it or not, I started crying immediately and said, but my body isn't mine, but I'll get in trouble if I say no, but people won't love me, but part [00:18:00] of the cost of being alive and being a woman is just to take what you know comes. And so it was shocking to me to see this. And then I started doing it in my retreats.
I gave that red string out to 150 women at a time and they started crying like me. I don't mean to be laughing, but it was also shocking with the same exact reaction I'm not allowed to, I'm not supposed to, I can't. And you know, in working with them, we got to the point where wow. So it's always the same thing.
Seeing where you are and naming where you are instead of trying to pretend to be somewhere else, power doesn't come from pretending you're not yourself. Power comes from gathering up the places where you've left yourself behind bringing them into the current moment and then moving out, acting on your own behalf.
And that's what the red string project is all about.
JJ Virgin: [00:19:00] That's awesome. That needs to get spread everywhere. Hopefully I will do my part here. Now. I know you have a gift for everybody. The breathes I have left. Walk us through what that is, and I will tell everyone you're going to be able to get this at jjvirgin.com/Geneen.
And you spell that G E N E. And, and along with the notes and the link over to your book, and I understand also when people buy your messy, magnificent Lifebook they also get a workshop along with. Yes,
Geneen Roth: they do. They get, I'll tell you about the two things. Yeah. We'll
JJ Virgin: have all this in the show notes too.
Don't worry about taking notes. So the first thing they get for free, and then what happens when they grab the book from,
Geneen Roth: so what that is is a, a whole understanding and a. Well, I'll backtrack for a second. I realized that I was scared that I was going to get to the end of my life [00:20:00] somehow and not have shown up.
And I wanted to live my life fully, whatever that took. Full out, out loud. And so I explore that and tell people how to do that in the breaths I have left it's about how to live fully magnificently show up and not get to the end of your life, or even to the end of a day. And have any regrets and feel like you didn't really live fully.
So the breaths I have left actually refers to that we all have, you know, an, an allotted amount of breath in a lifetime that the people people have figured out and I wanted to use. And I'm sure everybody who's listening to this wants to use the breaths they have. Fully wants to show up as best as you can and as alive as you can.
So that's what that is. And the. The [00:21:00] class is when you buy the book is women, weight and power releasing the energy of obsession. And I, you know, I ask this a lot, what would happen if we took the energy? We have ups that we have tied up in obsession and in the size of our bodies and worrying about it all the time and released it, the power that that could
effect in our culture, it would be enough to light up a city. It would be enough to light up a, to run a nuclear power plant. It would be enough to change the world and we need that energy. Now we need that energy now and it's available to us when we release it from obsession. And so that's what the class will be about walking you through that.
JJ Virgin: Very very cool, great tools. And for everybody listening, I'll put all this in the show notes jjvirgin.com/Geneen. And again, you spelled geneen, G E N E E N. All [00:22:00] right, Dean. Thank you so much for being with me today and thank you for pushing out another amazing book into the world. We need more and more and more of you out
Geneen Roth: there.
Thank you JJ, for being such an ambassador of the truth and goodness and health.
JJ Virgin: Ah, thank you. I appreciate it. Now, everybody, after the break, I'll be answering a listener's question. So stay with me.
Welcome back. This is the time where I answer listener's question. I grabbed this one off my Facebook live yesterday. We were talking about. Food and food addiction and one gal Tara said, you know, I'm great during the day. But then at night, my evil twin comes out and all bets are off. And here's the thing everyone chimed in of course, with like thumbs up.
I think we all can relate to that. And one of the things I've been saying, my entire [00:23:00] adult nutritionists life is don't bring the enemy into the house. I do not believe in willpower. I think that if we had willpower, we wouldn't be here as a people group. We are hardwired to seek out sugar, to seek out fat to Gorge so we can survive famines it's in our biology, it's in our DNA.
So why make this hard on yourself? The first thing that I would tell you is get the enemy out of the house now. So the next thing I usually hear when I say this is, but I have to cook for my family. Now, whenever I hear that I'm like, do you like your kids. Do you like your family? Cause if you do, why would you want to bring the stuff in too? Teach them to eat the good stuff first?
And then if you're going to have a treat, go out for it, it's so much easier and it puts it into the right perspective. So I don't bring the enemies in the house that I know tempt me too much. And we all have our trigger foods. And even if it's something healthy, let's say nut butter or. Too much healthy foods unhealthy.
So if you can't handle it, then you shouldn't have it around. And so I want to [00:24:00] emphasize if you are having challenges there, grab the materials in the show notes today JJvirgin.com/Geneen because Geneen is the master of really identifying emotional eating. But I I'm going to come from the more logical left brain approach of let's just start with, by making it impossible for you to do.
And then go deeper with her work. All right. I want to do a shout out to purple scuba. Yep. Purple scuba says JJ is a great source of information. Five stars. This podcast information is very helpful and a great use of one's time. That means a ton to me because the two ways that we commit in life is with our wallet and our time.
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And accessible and actionable for you. So I want to make sure you've got everything you need in your pursuit. Taking personal responsibility for your health. Alrighty. See you next week.